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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #1 
Hi all:

I am restoring my old criterium racer back up. It's a 1989 Specialized Allez (CrMO). I am having a devil of a time finding spec for the Suntour components. Specifically trying to determine the size of the sealed BB...it's either 155 Mmm (Measured) or something else. Like to buy a BB off of Bikeman...

I've sent this message to several bike forums and thought I'd give this one a try

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Sam

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Reply with quote  #2 
1989 catalogue here, sadly no BB dimensions.

http://www.retrobike.co.uk/gallery2/v/Manufacturer+Archive/Specialized+Archive/Catalogues/Specialized+Catalogue+1989/GroteFoto-NSD3CRD3.jpg.html
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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #3 


Yes, this is the only information I was able to find as well. Thanks for looking!

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RJ

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Reply with quote  #4 
Does you BB look anything like this one:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=6ff30553-6f04-496d-a50b-a5d2d9f31503&Enum=119

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Reply with quote  #5 
Kevlar_Heart = MIA?  Maybe he went duck hunting...(?)





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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #6 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ
Does you BB look anything like this one:

http://velobase.com/ViewComponent.aspx?ID=6ff30553-6f04-496d-a50b-a5d2d9f31503&Enum=119


Nope, sealed, but as long as the geometry is oK, something should work. I thought one of Bikeman's Sunlight units would do the trick

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RJ

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Reply with quote  #7 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevlar_heart


Nope, sealed, but as long as the geometry is oK, something should work. I thought one of Bikeman's Sunlight units would do the trick


Okee dokee...

***Another option to get OEM info: You might try contacting Suntour - 
https://www.srsuntour.com/pages/contact-us/

Otherwise, verify your BB housing threading and measure you crank axle from end to end.
With that info call either:
Bart @ (631) 902-0836 any day 10-5 ET
or
Pamela @ (631) 786-1410 Mon-Fri 10-5 ET

You should be golden.






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Reply with quote  #8 
YO! Kevlar - - -

Plan 'B':
Take you frame & sealed cartridge BB and drive down to Bikes 'n Kites on a Saturday morning during Bikeman's live YouTube show for a replacement part... 
You'll be on YouTube & world famous! 🚲 🆒 🌟 🌠 👍

- BIKE - awesome.jpg 


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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #9 
Quote:
Originally Posted by RJ


Okee dokee...

***Another option to get OEM info: You might try contacting Suntour - 
https://www.srsuntour.com/pages/contact-us/

Otherwise, verify your BB housing threading and measure you crank axle from end to end.
With that info call either:
Bart @ (631) 902-0836 any day 10-5 ET
or
Pamela @ (631) 786-1410 Mon-Fri 10-5 ET

You should be golden.







OK. Got that...AND maybe I can come out to Westhampton from Westchester to see you on your show. 

Looks like I'll need 38 X 58 Chain rings too, they are  pretty beat up. I have a few Suntour cassettes, so I'm good there. I'm sure you guys have something that will fit the Suntour GPX (It's identical to FSA I think).

I keep missing your replies. What am I doing wrong???



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RJ

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Reply with quote  #10 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevlar_heart


OK. Got that...AND maybe I can come out to Westhampton from Westchester to see you on your show. 

Looks like I'll need 38 X 58 Chain rings too, they are  pretty beat up. I have a few Suntour cassettes, so I'm good there. I'm sure you guys have something that will fit the Suntour GPX (It's identical to FSA I think).

I keep missing your replies. What am I doing wrong???




Save yourself some grief =
Figure out what you need >>>
Call Bart or Pam to make sure they have what you need in stock or can get it in and then ask Bart about coming out on LIVE show day...

Depending on what he intends to cover during a show and how much business is being conducted that day will probably factor into the equation... and if Bart is up for it.


RE: 'missing replies' =
I have no clue.
There should (may) be an email alert system located in your User Control Panel (?) -
You may or may not have to subscribe to the thread you are interested in -
I don't know.

Check the User Control Panel and if all looks good there check that the email alerts aren't going into your spam folder...

If all else fails then call Pam = she's the Maven of the web.


Unfortunately, you won't see me @ the shop or on the show anytime soon...
I dwell a bit further west of Long Island & I'm not a card-carrying member of the posse


UnknownComic.jpg 




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soup

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Reply with quote  #11 
Kevlar heart AFAIK there is NO e-mail system to notify you of replies.

What I do is look at the list of all posts and see which ones have a gold star rather than a silver one (that suggests new post to me) then I click it and see who 'says' what.  You could look for your own name as OP of the thread and if it is a gold star someone has probably replied to that thread so click on it and read, but that means you have to come into the forum, you don't get an e-mail advising you there is a new post. Bung this forum in your bookmarks(favourites) and come and check once a day, should only take thirty seconds or so

I have used the terms "suggests" and "probably" regarding the star colours as although they do change colour when someone replies they also seem to, very seldom but non-zero, spontaneously change to Gold. I have tried to figure out why they do that but no joy as yet.

Edited to correct some punctuation.

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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #12 
The saga continues....no drive crank is being difficult. Stubborn non-drive crank arm. Threads stripped....plan C. Not saving the bottom bracket or the crank arm, so saw may appear soon.

Tips tricks ..Pitman Arm separator?

Allez_Crank_1.jpg 
Modified gear puller. Leaving tension on it with a lake of penetrating oil

Allez_Crank_2.jpg 
Once the crank arm is removed, I can continue restoring my old steel road bike.

Hope everyone stays safe and wears a helmet...

EDIT: The bike is on the floor because I had it flat on a table when doing the initial work with the gear puller (suggestion from another bike shop Youtuber). My current bike in the workstand for adjustments
 


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soup

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Reply with quote  #13 
The puller may well do it with time and penetrating oil, however if everything is full of tin worm and it's all gummed up inside ... , yup sawing will be your only realistic alternative.  At least you are not going to try and re-use anything.

I wouldn't worry about the bike not being in the workstand, quite often you have to take the bike out the stand to really put some force behind something when the operation is not as easy as shown in some YouTube vid.

THOUGHTS
As I have never had a crank stuck that badly have not tried any of these techniques, but 'free thinking' gives :-

  You got an air powered 'whizz-wheel' (or maybe even a mains angle grinder)? As it looks like the bottom bracket holder (<technical term  ;O) will not allow straight blades to be used.
  So a cutting disk in some sort of rotary tool a 'whizz-wheel' or even one of the more powerfull Dremels (though the Dremel will take an age).
  Is there a gap between the frame and the crank maybe you can get a blade down there, that way you could use a normal hacksaw ?


  No finesse whatsover with the angle grinder, but it will probably be the fastest.

  Oxy kit? Maybe playing the flame on the BB axle will cause enough differential expansion to 'break-free' the crank arm from the axle, however you would need to be careful not to heat the frame, and any oil lying about will catch fire,  probably not a good idea .

  Doubt there is any way to get the crank axle cold enough to cause differential ... . Computer overclocker with easy acces to LN2?  Maybe some poured on will get it cold enough.

Minor edit to correct some punctution

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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #14 
Quote:
Originally Posted by soup
<snipped>

I wouldn't worry about the bike not being in the workstand, quite often you have to take the bike out the stand to really put some force behind something when the operation is not as easy as shown in some YouTube vid.

THOUGHTS
As I have never had a crank stuck that badly have not tried any of these techniques, but 'free thinking' gives :-

  You got an air powered 'whizz-wheel' (or maybe even a mains angle grinder)? As it looks like the bottom bracket holder (<technical term  ;O) will not allow straight blades to be used.
  So a cutting disk in some sort of rotary tool a 'whizz-wheel' or even one of the more powerfull Dremels (though the Dremel will take an age).
  Is there a gap between the frame and the crank maybe you can get a blade down there, that way you could use a normal hacksaw ?


  No finesse whatsover with the angle grinder, but it will probably be the fastest.

  Oxy kit? Maybe playing the flame on the BB axle will cause enough differential expansion to 'break-free' the crank arm from the axle, however you would need to be careful not to heat the frame, and any oil lying about will catch fire,  probably not a good idea .

  Doubt there is any way to get the crank axle cold enough to cause differential ... . Computer overclocker with easy acces to LN2?  Maybe some poured on will get it cold enough.

Minor edit to correct some punctution


Many thanks for your suggestions. As this is a "project," there's no hurry . I'll try heating and also a sharp blow to the spindle. Also have a Pitman arm separator to try.

Hacksaw will fit...angle grinder quicker

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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #15 
Success. Used lock ring as leverage gear puller. Note crank still on spindle

Attached Images
Click image for larger version - Name: DSC_0811~01.jpeg, Views: 12, Size: 413.11 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: DSC_0814.JPG, Views: 15, Size: 350.05 KB  Click image for larger version - Name: DSC_0812.JPG, Views: 15, Size: 349.11 KB 

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Reply with quote  #16 
Yipee!
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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #17 
New (to me) crankset
s-l1600.jpg 
It's not the GPX original, but the NOS GPX I found was priced way too high for this project. I've cobbled together some chainrings, etc. Pix after I assemble


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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #18 
Put on new bottom bracket
  DSC_0802.JPG 
Put together crankset

DSC_0815.JPG   Mounted it on bike
DSC_0817.JPG 


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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #19 
More progress Front/rear brakes installed DSC_0841.JPG 
DSC_0842.JPG 
I forgot to wear my One Less Bike T-shirt for this....need stickers for DSC_0843.JPG  the shop (hint-hint)



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Sam

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Reply with quote  #20 
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevlar_heart
   
I forgot to wear my One Less Bike T-shirt for this... 


Really?! Have you gone to the dark side? Or is there a Carmanforu out there in a parallel universe?

Liking the rebuild [smile]



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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #21 
Removed freewheel...having found my original Suntour freewheel removal tool
DSC_0850.JPG 
DSC_0849.JPG 


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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #22 
Suntour derailleur...even has the instructions.
DSC_0852.JPG 
DSC_0854.JPG 


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kevlar_heart

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Reply with quote  #23 
OK, it's put together. Now I am stymied by an inability to get the gears to shift consistently. I get a chain pop on the small chainring in every rear cog. Large chainring works good, but inconsistent indexed shifting.

BM have a viddy for older derailleurs? Most of Youtube is modern day fine tuning.

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Reply with quote  #24 
There isn't really a method for fine tuning friction shifters. You just move them until the gears have changed properly.
There may be some sort of indexed friction shifters out there but I have never heard of them.
Part of Edit 2 But I tend to see what happens in the European theatre (being a jock) and not what is in use leftpondia, E.G. I still have never seen a back pedal brake.

If you are still having problems with gear shifting :-

Check your chain line, would your chain run around the cog and then a more or less  straight line between your large front cog and just right of centre on the rear cluster, and small front cog and just left of centre on your rear cluster. Maybe you require different positioning on your BB.

Have you checked the rear derailleur hanger is not bent ?

Ensure your limit stops are set correctly.

Ensure "B" screw is set correctly, it is to ensure correct adjustment of the position of the jockey pulley.

The barrel adjuster is really just for fine adjustment tuning of the cable length which is required to ensure the 'click stops' on the shiffters equate to the cogs on the rear cluster
this is not required for your Down tube(friction) shifter as if you need another millimetre of cable pulled to ensure the chain is right on the cog then just turn/move/tweak the shifter that amount
 
Edit1 Minor edit to correct typo.

Edit2 Re-reading this and thinking about it I would hazard that it is likely to be the chain line or the derailleur is bent.  But I have been very very wrong before andd no doubt will be very very wrong again so no guarantees .

[centreline-chain-alignment]

See how on the top view imagining the centre of the two cogs would run in a straight line back to the centre of the rear cluster 

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Reply with quote  #25 
Thanks soup

I am pretty sure it's the chainline in the new installation. Before the rebuild, the GPX drive train shifted great -- bike was on an indoor trainer for years.  When replacing the square taper BB I went with the suggestion of 68 x 115 mm for a sealed "modern" BB. Looking at Velo Base the Suntour Cyclone (and the original GPX) used a pressed 113mm BB. Guy selling the NOS GPX crankset said they had good luck with  115 sealed BB (like the Shimano UN55 I used).

The Suntour GPX shifters can be either friction or indexed (Suntour's Accushift). The RD works like a champ, but I'm having trouble with an ancient barrel adjuster (I have a backup RD). That may be a matter of cable break in, but indexed shifting has been inconsistent. Great on the 52T Chainring, horror story on the 38T

Where I am stumped is the chain pop I get on the 38T chainring itself. New chain installed correctly, crankset assembled correctly, but I get a pop that I can't isolate to a specific portion of either the new chain or the new  chainring. Many NSFW words were uttered in the presence of the family cat.

Many thanks for the reference diagrams. I may be forced to re-evaluate the 68 X 115 mm BB and go with 68 X 113 mm. I see Bikeman has some in stock. 

I'll futz with this for a bit and see what I can do. 
DSC_0860.JPG 


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Reply with quote  #26 
Still working...got the chain line pretty much set....now getting the old Suntour Accushift Index to work

DSC_0865.JPG  DSC_0866.JPG  DSC_0867.JPG 


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Reply with quote  #27 
OOoohhh Indexed down-tube shifters, now there's clever.

Didn't realise they existed, ah well live and learn.

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Reply with quote  #28 

Shakeout ride. No wombats were harmed, but I need to remember to secure the quick release on the rear wheel for riding....luckily the Bikemanforu sticker on my helmet protected me. Some more fine tuning then wrap the handlebars and shine it up.

Handlebars and brake levers need adjustment. Surprisingly the indexing held up before the rear wheel seized under the brake assembly. That's the nettlesome issue. Try as I might, I don't have a gnat's ass of clearance between the brake assembly and the rear tire. I have 700 x 23C's on the original Wolber GTX rims....I rode this bike 1000s of miles over the years and now I can't get clearance? [mad]

1989_Allez_Shakedown.jpg 



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Reply with quote  #29 
Added a lock washer as a spacer between the bracket and the brake assembly. That translated to about a 4-5 mm clearance between the tire and the bottom of the brake assembly. Still have some odds and ends (getting brake levers even, handlebar wrap), but the shakeout ride of 2-3 miles in the wind today went well. Gears shifted under load (me...I'm the load) and the brakes stopped efficiently.

Front derailleur is a bit whack, but serviceable. If I run across a 28.6 mm Suntour GPX clamp on, I'll swap it out. I think I overestimated the BB spindle length requirements...progress not perfection DSC_0890.JPG 


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Reply with quote  #30 
Rainy day....wrapped the bars

Allex_bar_wrap.jpg 


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